Mikey, new food on the market

Sheltiemama · 03-13-2010, 11:17 AM

It's a private label for TSC called 4Health. Not all bad and priced REALLY right. $20 for 18 lbs.

Thought you might like to research it and see what you thought.

Mikey · 03-14-2010, 05:01 AM

AWWWW I'm so flattered you thought of me

I cannot find a manufacturer website but googling led me to Chazhound and a post that listed ingredients/info

Quote:

The one we got was the performance formula:

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Egg Product, Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Natural Chicken Flavor, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein 30.0% (min.)
Crude Fat 20.0% (min.)
Omega?6 Fatty Acids 3.3% (min.)
Omega?3 Fatty Acids 0.5% (min.)
Moisture 10.0% (max.)
Crude Fiber 3.0% (max.)
Glucosamine hydrochloride 600 mg/kg (min.)
Chondroitin sulfate 200 mg/kg (min.)
Zinc 150 mg/kg (min.)
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg (min.)
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg (min.)

\
post here
4Health Dog Food

And yeah-anyways-the chicken meal-or any meal says its not human grade (meaning not good) Natural chicken flavor means anything NOT chicken is not included-that could be bloody sawdust (Well chicken meal or natural chicken flavor) could be bloody sawdust-sadly. Anyways-yeah wouldn't feed it.

But thank you so much for letting me know-the ingredients are from a forum posting and may not be actually the ingredients so I'll keep an eye

Thanks for thinking of me

**alfi** · 03-14-2010, 06:00 AM

Does this help? TSC - 4Health Dog Food Performance Formula

Sheltiemama · 03-14-2010, 10:56 AM

Crap. SAWDUST? I thought chicken meal was ground up chicken bones. Shows what I know! This is good. We need more discussions like this so we don't screw up again!

I got the lamb one. I'm going to have to wrestle the bag around again and see what it says one more time.

Jo

Mischief · 03-15-2010, 02:12 AM

From what I've found on the net, chicken meal is not bad for dogs. Niether is Turkey Meal, Herring Meal or salmon meal, they are all found in Orijen, usually as a second, third and sixth ingredient.
Apparently there are regulations about what can be included in any "meat" meal.

. Most ingredients on pet food labels have a corresponding definition in the AAFCO Official Publication. For example, "meat" is defined as the "clean flesh of slaughtered mammals and is limited to...the striate muscle...with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh." On the other hand, "meat meal" is "the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen content

I also came across this FDA website as well that might help
Pet Food Labels - General

Mikey · 03-19-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Crap. SAWDUST? I thought chicken meal was ground up chicken bones. Shows what I know! This is good. We need more discussions like this so we don't screw up again!

Here's the whole quote -I definitely recommend reading the FDA and AFFCO websites

Quote:

That is not to say that the second product has more "meat" than the first, or in fact, any meat at all. Meat meal is not meat per se, since most of the fat and water have been removed by rendering. Ingredients must be listed by their "common or usual" name. Most ingredients on pet food labels have a corresponding definition in the AAFCO Official Publication. For example, "meat" is defined as the "clean flesh of slaughtered mammals and is limited to...the striate muscle...with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh." On the other hand, "meat meal" is "the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents." Thus, in addition to the processing, it could also contain parts of animals one would not think of as "meat." Meat meal may not be very pleasing to think about eating yourself, even though it's probably more nutritious. Animals do not share in people's aesthetic concerns about the source and composition of their food. Regardless, the distinction must be made in the ingredient list (and in the product name). For this reason, a product containing "lamb meal" cannot be named a "Lamb Dinner."

Meat Meal is 'fine' for dogs-so far as they know. It's NOT human grade, in does not get tested for mad cow etc etc. It can come from an animal that has died of unknown causes OR been euthanized, and has been dead without refridgeration for days. You cannot give it to people to eat. I firmly believe that my dog should not be eating it either.

For those who think meat meal is fine-go for it. I don't and I strongly recommend feeding food that does NOT contain meat meals.

Mischief · 03-19-2010, 06:45 PM

Mikey,
The chicken meal that you referred to in the OP (as being bloody sawdust) is a very common ingredient in many of the top end dog foods. I think I am confused by your response, maybe you could clear this up for me. Are you lumping meat meal together with chicken meal or turkey meal? Maybe that is where I am getting confused.??

Perhaps you could help me understand what you are "not recommending" and what you are in favor of, in terms of " _____ meals"

The reason I don't quite understand what you're saying is because both of the foods listed on your dog's bios, contain some kind of "meal" whether it be; chicken meal, turkey meal, salmon meal or herring meal.

Any clarification would be appreciated : )

Mikey · 03-20-2010, 01:15 AM

I recommend choosing any product with no or the least amount of meals. ANy meals-meat or chicken or what have you -the term meal means it's not fit for human consumption.It can have euthanized, and 4D animals in it.

Quote:

Are you lumping meat meal together with chicken meal or turkey meal? Maybe that is where I am getting confused.??

yes and they are equal. I'm not lumping-thats just how it is.
It doesn't matter what is before 'meal' it's unfit for human consumption-so choose something with none or the least amount.

Dog food-no matter who makes it-there just isn't a perfect one out there. I've been reseraching dog food and canine nutrition for over 1.5 years now-I'm University alumni (BSc) and have access to veterinary journals-have been conducting sound reserach there for a long time now. As well as consulting the standards with FDA and AFFCO.

Even with no 'meals' all dog food is extruded (destroying most of the nutrional value) and then has vitamins sprayed on it. It's nutrionally balanced and is neccessary unless one consults a veterinary nutrionist to balance the diet (That's a DVM with a specialization in nutrition) -it is important to include it.

I don't advocate raw but I also don't think dry dog food should be the only component in a dog's diet. As it stands though there is no pure and healthy awesome choice -sadly.

Does that clarify?

To summarize-I'm not ecstatic with any food-but I like Orijen the best (Canadian made-we do have stricter standards in meat) but I would like to see the market evolve or else move to a strictly prepared at home diet. As it is Mikey has 25-33% home made-steak, chicken etc -human grade-plus veggies etc-COOKED

)

Mischief · 03-20-2010, 01:11 PM

[quote=Mikey;49330]I recommend choosing any product with no or the least amount of meals. ANy meals-meat or chicken or what have you -the term meal means it's not fit for human consumption.It can have euthanized, and 4D animals in it.

yes and they are equal. I'm not lumping-thats just how it is.
It doesn't matter what is before 'meal' it's unfit for human consumption-so choose something with none or the least amount.

--------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Mikey, for taking the time to explain what you were trying to say. I can see you are very passionate about your dogs health and nutrition, as am I. But I do believe you're mistaken about ALL "meals" being unfit for human consumption. While I believe it may be true in some, if not many dog foods, it is not true of all.

Both Orijen and 'Go' claim that their ingredients are safe and fit for human consumption. I'm sure there are others as well. I am currently awaiting a response from Horizon Legacy as to this question but I feel pretty confident that it will be a similar stance to Petcurean (Go) and Champion Pet Foods (Orijen)

Here is a bit of reasuring information from Orijen's website...

Q | FRESH MEAT QUALITY - Are ORIJEN ingredients human grade?

A |

Yes. All ORIJEN fresh meats (chicken, fish, turkey, eggs) are of table quality. Chicken, fish and turkey meals are produced exclusively from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

and this from Go Natural's website;

Government Certified "Fit for Human Consumption" Ingredients

Go! Natural pet foods are produced in state of the art, government inspected facilities and all ingredients are government certified for "fit for human consumption'"status. Go! Natural is one of the first pet foods that utliizes fruits and vegetables instead of wheat and corn found in conventional pet foods. Today, Go! Natural provides some of the best ingredients available and maximizes nutrition by using hormone free, grain fed chicken, wild west coast salmon, garden vegetables, farm fresh fruit, human grade oils (rich in Omega 6 and 3 essential fatty acids), berries (natural antioxidants), pre-biotics, pro-biotics, glucosamine, chondroitin, taurine and beta carotene

So I think a few companies are making good progress in the right direction and I hope we continue to do so.

My advice to the original poster would be to call or write to the company and find out more about what, where and how the ingredients are made, then you could better decide if you wanted to keep looking for another brand or make the choice to use their product with more confidence