pit bulls...?

Zim · 11-23-2009, 01:18 AM

American Pit Bull Terrier Network Pit Bull Encyclopedia A to Z about the APBT

corrected link. all three breed standards in depth and a LOT more.n

**Criosphynx** · 11-23-2009, 01:22 AM

Nice link...Iam reading about it now. Thanks

Hey my dog is believed to be a mix...if I post photos can you give your opinion? I have had people say mix (i think mix) but I've had people say she looks spot on purebred...

Mikey · 11-23-2009, 01:27 AM

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would you manage that behavior through socialization i wonder? my understanding is that its not a lack of socialization but som'thing that either will/ will not happen...baring the tramatic event like I mentioned above. I can't speak from this personally, I see people "socializing" their puppies all the time and the dogs are miserable...people don't understand that the experiences MUST be good...not just dog experiences.

But wouldn't keeping Clover really really socialized with other dogs (in a positive way) really prevent this?
Mikey was mauled by a dog in one of his adoptive homes (has a scar) he was dumped at the vet by the owner and the shelter had to foot the bill. So not only did he get severly hurt, he was dumped again to boot.
(I know-not a pitt, but we were essentially starting from scratch to socialize again)
We were told he couldn't play with any dogs bigger then him, as observed in teh shelter he fought or hid.
We did tons of puppy dates with both bigger and smaller dogs and now I'm one proud momma-he may not like some dogs enough to play long with them. But he always gets along and even plays with really rough, rude and/or large doggies.
I'd think barring a trauma with lots of socialization she could buffer Clover from ever having DA? But like I said-never had a pitt, and Mikey isn't one...so I dunno?

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wish i had more time/patience actually, i think it would be a great place to study dog behavior....clover would love to go and hang out all day that's for sure

hmmmmm...I think we should try to get a grant for this study...and we should do it

I heard that if you put 'with respect to global warming' it helps you get study money. So put that in the title (Fawkese you are in charge of getting the grant, but we'll join you at the dog park) "Studying dog behavior, particularly in pitts, with respect to global warming"

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...i always find this so sad, i mean dogs take so much punishment as it is, and none take more then pits do, imo

That is soo true

**Criosphynx** · 11-23-2009, 01:34 AM

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but wouldn't keeping Clover really really socialized with other dogs (in a positive way) really prevent this?

I'd think barring a trauma with lots of socialization she could buffer Clover from ever having DA? But like I said-never had a pitt, and Mikey isn't one...so I dunno?

personally I agree with this, But I see lots of pit savy people say that its a genetic thing that will switch on at maturity. So I can't say for sure, my observations are that dogs will either say the same or go down a knotch in tolerance...I personally have not witnessed a dog social puppy become DA without bad socialization or trama...people say it happens tho..I can't say I agree with the switching on idea, but perhaps I just havent seen it yet. So yea, dunno

my hunch tho, is that more happend to contribute than the owner realizes.

like I've mentioned before the stronger the nature, the more training you have to do...and at the extreme ends you hit a point were you can't change much more and what cannot be changed must be managed...

Brittany · 11-23-2009, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by fawkese1

this is true as well, i mean, you can't just expose the dog to stuff and hope for the best you need to actively do something to make it a good experience for the dog at the same time...at least that is my understanding of it...i also see similar situations where the dog is showing signs of fear and then gets corrected for it....even worse....

What should we do to make sure it is a positive experience?

Still have some more reading to do I will post more after I finish the thread.

Brittany · 11-23-2009, 10:52 AM

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I heard that if you put 'with respect to global warming' it helps you get study money. So put that in the title (Fawkese you are in charge of getting the grant, but we'll join you at the dog park) "Studying dog behavior, particularly in pitts, with respect to global warming"

Hilarious!!!

Brittany · 11-23-2009, 11:02 AM

Ok I have read through the thead but haven't had a chance to read all the links yet.....

I have always thought Pit Bulls were aggressive because they are raised that way. For example, to fight. So the majority of pitt bulls were raised to fight and then got a bad reputation. I mean it should be Dogs raised to fight are aggressive but everyone says Pitts are aggressive because they are raised to fight. And therefore pitts got a bed rep.

But it sounds like many of you think it is genetics that cause the aggression....am I understanding that right? It seems like if I raised a Lab or e Golden Retriever the way people raise their pitts to fight we would get the same result and if everyone started doing that then that BREED of dog would have the same rep as pitts do now.

I know someone was talking about people adopting pitts because they look tough. Most of these people probably are not dog lovers really and do not know what they need to know in order to own a dog. So they use what they heard about and see on tv which is usually corrections. Enough corrections can turn into aggression and that could also be a huge problem.

I am sick in bed today so if my post doesn't make sense....LoL

**Criosphynx** · 11-23-2009, 11:23 AM

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But it sounds like many of you think it is genetics that cause the aggression....am I understanding that right? It seems like if I raised a Lab or e Golden Retriever the way people raise their pitts to fight we would get the same result and if everyone started doing that then that BREED of dog would have the same rep as pitts do now.

labs were selectively bred to retrieve, herding dogs to herd and these dogs were selectively bred to fight...so it is genetic in the same manner.

that said there are lots of retrievers that dont fetch and collies that are afraid of sheep.

you could train other breeds to fight, but more will fail at it...lots of pit bulls are discarded by fighters when they refuse to fight...

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What should we do to make sure it is a positive experience?

not allowing other dogs to bully yours...I see people bring terrified puppies to dog parks and let them get picked on...they are under the impression that this is socialization...i personally would not bring my puppy around RUDE dogs as his first experiences with others.

stumpy · 11-23-2009, 01:24 PM

Bad Rap pitbulls, is a rescue based out of San Fransisco. they have one of the best, most informative, myth blasting websites on the net. Check them out for any pit related questions

Bad Rap : Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pitbulls

Zim · 11-23-2009, 01:41 PM

bad rap is good. they are really nice people...but no website is definative...except to some degree apbt encyclopedia. because they acknowledge that generally no two pit experts will say exactly the same thing.

as for DA.

there are many different kinds of DA. the majority of these types are environmentally induced..however..

its generally accepted among geneticists that genes control around eighty percent of a dogs behavior. i have seen DA where the dog exhibits a physical aggressive reaction that is a direct opposite of the communixative cues the dog displays. iow..a dog who acts aggressively in a predatory manner while rhrowing off signals of friendliness. they arent really stressed. the dog is calm..juat exhibiting conflicting behavior. i believe that is what genetic da looks like. i have only met three dogs who did this. out of over a thousand. i think its probably rare. ill let you know when im done
gathering data. im in college studying this stuff. i hope to work with canine behavioral geneticsmore.