Help Me Help Them

KaidyKisses

I don't know if this should be posted here or in the training forum, because as it is about a behavoir thing, I'm asking for training help. Sorry if I picked wrong.

Duke - American White Shepherd, intact male, 9 years old
Tucker - Labrador Retriever, neutered male, 4 years old

Other dogs in the house
Luc - Labrador Retriever, neutered male, 4 years old
Fathom - Border Collie, spayed female, 1 year 1/2 old
Riley - American Cocker Spaniel, intact male, 1 year 1/2 old

Duke and Tucker are owned by my mom, who I live with. My dogs aren't involved in the main part of this situation.

My mom took in Duke in June. We found him on the highway without a collar. We tried to find his owner, put out ads, and such. Two weeks passed and no one called for him, no one ever put out lost dog ads, etc. My mom decided to keep him. He greeted and got along with our dogs well until last week.

All of the bigger dogs were out in the yard, barking at a neighbor dog, running along the fence, sniffing the corners, etc. The neighbor dog was barking back. Duke jumped on Tucker. I didn't see it happen, but I heard it. Tucker didn't get hurt, but he had 5 wet spots from his neck to his back leg where Duke was mouthing him.

The day after that Duke kept tabs on Tucker. If Tucker moved, Duke was watching. If Tucker left the room, Duke followed, but stayed away. The day after that Duke cornered Tucker in the hall and jumped on him, again, no one saw how it started and there was no noise until Tucker started shrieking. Tucker wasn't hurt.

The past two days Duke has only zoned in on Tucker if the dogs start getting riled up, like play fighting, playing with toys, all wanting to go out, chasing each other, etc. When this happens my mom has cornered Duke off in one part of the living room and Duke calms down within 5 minutes. This has only happened twice.

Today everything was fine until I left. Duke, Tato, and Tucker were all in the hall by the door to the garage, and Duke jumped on Tucker. Tucker wasn't hurt.

Tucker is not fighting back at all. He is just doing a combination of crouching/cowering, trying to get away while screaming like a fire engine.

Also, last night everyone but Tucker went outside and on their way off the porch, Duke, Luc, and Fathom got a little pushy with each other. When they got off the porch Duke snapped at Luc. Luc snapped back and Duke walked away. This morning when they all walked out to do their business, usually Fathom will go pee and Duke will pee in the same spot right after her, today Duke went over to Fathom, Luc padded over with his tail up and when Fathom walked away, Luc marked the spot and Duke walked away. Duke went to pee on the fence and afterward Luc went to the same spot and marked over it.

I'm a member of another dog forum and the people that I've been discussing this with has mostly come to the conclusion that this is a dominance thing. This is splitting my family apart to two sides. Me, my dogs and Duke on one side and then my mom, my brother, and Tucker on the other. My mom wants to rehome Duke because she can't handle Duke attacking Tucker. I want to try to help the situation. I want to know if there's any thing I can do training wise to help. I thought of a removal technique orignally, but Duke doesn't zone in on Tucker that often at all. They can and do sit/stand/lay next to each other just fine. They can be in the same room fine. It's just when Duke gets riled up or something. The only signal is that Duke lowers his head so his neck is straight, he keeps his ears up, alert, and he pants. No lip curling, growling, barking, hackles raising.

So thank you for your time and any response you have. Is there something I can do?

Criosphynx

Hi

firstly, no its not, "alphas" and "leaders" are never violent to get their points across...they don't need to be...


tho the fact he is intact may be making the problem worse



Tell me about Dukes day...how many walks? How far, for long? How much training, play stimulation?

Honestly, I see a bit of herding behavior mixed with frustration and in the case of the fence, redirection (if you can't bite the one you want, bite the one your with)

KaidyKisses

I do train with Duke, I have to be very calm and use a very soft tone for him to respond and stay focused. If I even use my normal talking voice he will get anxious and walk away. When we aren't training and I use my normal talking voice he will respond. He also flinches from the sound of the clicker, so I always have to hide it if I have it out from previously training one of my dogs. I do a training session with Duke twice a day.

I play Fetch with Duke throughout the whole day, from the time I'm home from work to going to bed. Or on my days off, from the time I am awake until I go to bed. If he has his tennis ball, he chews on it and every 5-10 minutes will come to me, drop the ball and wait. Usually he'll come back two-three times and then go away for 5-10 minutes before coming back over.

I also play fetch with all of the dogs outside daily (though Tucker doesn't play fetch, he just eats grass or digs after gophers.)

Duke doesn't go on walks. I walk my dogs every day unless it's raining, which is common here, but my mom doesn't like the idea of me taking him out. She thinks he will get loose somehow and run away. My mom is paranoid and negative about everything. We have gotten in fights about letting me take Duke for a walk before.

If it matters, the same goes with Tucker. I think the last time Tucker went out for a walk was three years ago right before I moved out for the first time.

KaidyKisses

I also want to say that I know my mom isn't a great dog owner. Mostly she just loves them. She takes them to the vet when needed, she measures their food, and she takes care of their coats, but that's about it besides petting and cuddling.

I know that it may be a good idea for Duke to go to a different home with someone more hands on and more active, but my mom's idea of rehoming is our local shelter. It used to be a kill shelter, my mom is saying that is isn't anymore. Regardless of that it's not a sanitary place and I can't imagaine willingly putting Duke in there. Also, could he be adopted fast? A 9 year old intact Shepherd with bad teeth?

I don't want him to suffer. If it was possible, I would keep him and take him away with me when I move in January. But I'm moving out of the country and I've had to go through a 8-9 month importing process with dogs just for them to come with me and January, as you know, is a lot closer than 8 months away.

fawkese1

tbh, i think duke might be better off in a new home if that is the case... have you looked around for a breed rescue or anything to help you?

from what you posted it sounds like he, and tucker need way more mental stimulation and exercise for starters...

KaidyKisses

I live in a very small town in a rural area of 8,000 people. We have no rescues, just a local pound/shelter. We don't even have a professional dog trainer, I looked into seeing about calling one last week, but we don't have any.

fawkese1

some rescue groups will travel to pick the dog up... it is a long shot, but it may be in duke's best interest, considering the circumstances... i know this is rough... sorry, there are lots and lots of things that can be done for him, but it takes time and effort to do it, and it just didn't sound like your mom is the type of person to carry on with it after you leave, it isn't a "do this one thing once and he is fixed" sort of a thing (don't we all wish! )

fawkese1

just saw, you are in CA... where-abouts? (you don't have to be too specific if you don't want to) i mean there are trainers all over CA even where i grew up, and that was a small place...

KaidyKisses

I'll message you about my location.

I know this isn't a one time do thing. I was hoping to find a method and use it, get my mom into doing it, and making sure she stays with it to make it a natural thing before I move away.

Criosphynx

I don't have alot of shep experience, but what I have learned is they are very easily understimulated. They need a task, almost constantly in som' individuals...I have seen dogs pace and pace and pace if they don't have anything to do...


the first thing I'd do is neuter him. I know many people claim neutering will not affect behavior, but I believe it does/will.

Secondly, I'd contact a shep rescue, being a white shep, they are very desireable as pets, and they may find a home for him, age/teeth and all.

thirdly he must be prevented from attacking the other dog at all costs...each time he does it, its 100x harder to "untrain"

Lastly, I'd up the training and exercise as much as you can bear...a dog backpack might help

honestly tho, these are just not dogs for every household...I know you are trying and I commend you. You are doing more than most people would