Growling with food / chew toy

howetechnical · 11-04-2009, 10:27 AM

Hi all,

Our lab/pointer mix that my wife and I adopted on Sunday night (1 year 5 mo old) is doing extremely well on training, whether it be waiting patiently to come inside until we give him the verbal command to (with the door wide open the whole time), recalling, having a new name, as well as knowing what areas of the house are OK to come into at certain times of the day (gotta give our cats SOME respit from this giant, after all!). There is one thing however that slightly concerns me: he grows if you come near him or touch him while eating or chewing on one of his toys (all toys are brand new). With the food, he only growls but keeps eating, but with the chew toy he looks right up at me and growls. He doesn't put his ears back very much, only very slightly, and his previous owner said it's normal (as in, he always does it) for him to growl while eating if somebody comes near. This morning, after our usual 2.5-3 mile bike ride which tired him out, he did it again once we were home and I spoke with a low, soft but commanding voice "that's not good" (I know I know, I should choose something better for repetition, like "stop growling"). He will continue to do this until I either walk away or divert his attention to something else like going outside into the yard, etc (which we have him in during the day, when we leave for work). Eye contact when he has his toy also will instigate this, after about 5 seconds, even if we're talking nicely to him (no other eye contact causes this, only when he has his toy. Every other time he's very good).

What are some training tips you could recommend for breaking him of this growling habit? He hasn't really acted on the instinct yet, but I never know what's going through his mind and what he's capable of. In all other situations and trainings, he knows that I'm the alpha male and follows my command and lead very well for only 50+- hours into ownership.

howetechnical · 11-04-2009, 10:42 AM

UPDATE: He just started growling about a 4-5 on a scale of 10 when my wife went near him, and he wouldn't stop growling with her commands. I came out, firmly told him to "stop growling" and the growling increased a little. I then, in a slightly louder deep voice told him to "get over here" (our saying for him to come when he's been bad, as to not confuse him with "come" being a neutral/positive word). I said this a couple of times and he followed, then I took the ball away from him and put him outside.

Since he needs to chew, I'm thinking that tonight I'll bring his toy back and slowly give it to him (he has toys outside too, so he's fine in the day), while petting him and praising him with verbal appreciation. If he starts to growl after a few seconds, I take it away until the next night and try again. What do you think about this? I hate to deprive him of his natural urge to chew (and am afraid he'll make do with our couch instead), but what other way could break him of this?

Mikey · 11-04-2009, 11:40 AM

Welcome!!

It's tricky because it's safety right? Like, the major thing is, if you have children, or visiting kids, if a kid drops food and goes to pick it up-the dog could bite (protecting any food on the ground, thinking it's his). Resource guarding dogs can be dangerous. So on that note, I'd say 'behaviorist/trainer".

But at the same point, I want to say-try it on your own first (so long as there are no kids around!).

Resources-like food and toys-he needs to know these are on loan from you and they are yours.

So I'd sit on the floor and hand feed him; handle him while you are feeding him -kibble by kibble. (If he growls stop feeding and wait a few minutes); Work up to handling him while your feeding him.

I expect my dogs to tolerate being touched anywhere while eating anything, and that I can take the food away (no matter what it is) at any time and they won't growl. I can pick up their feet and play with the webbing or trim nails while they are eating, and they don't bat an eye. This is where you want to get for safety.

For toys. Take them away so he doesn't have free access; Then you can do this exercise:
-Give him a toy, let him get over the novelty and after a few minutes trade him-either for a treat or another toy. Work up to a 'drop it' where he'll automatically drop the toy when you say drop it-for a treat or a new toy; And soon you'll need to be able to physically touch a toy he has in his mouth without growling.

Like I said for safety you need to be able to touch your dog anywhere and take away any resource from him. This is for your safety, visiting guests and even his (What if he gets ahold of something dangerous and you need to take it off him?). You could, if no one's in danger, work on it at home. You can also try a trainer or behaviorist-many will even come to your home to work there

He's adorable by the way!

EllensCreatures · 11-04-2009, 12:03 PM

You're doing great for new ownership!!!! I'm really impressed.

Mikey's tips are all EXCELLENT. And she's right, you can't ignore this because it's a saftey issue. But it is a balance and I would be wary of pushing him too fast. He is new to you, after all, and might just be feeling insecure, and you don't want to push him into actually biting, it might set up a negative interaction loop. You might want to consider doing the hand feeding thing for a few days. If he's having trouble with that, make him do a command (sit, down, whatever) to earn the kibble you give him by hand. You can work up to feeding him from his bowl while you are holding it (a little bit at a time, if necessary), and once he's really ok with that, taking the bowl away from him, but it has to be done slowly for some dogs. I think about this more as a trust issue rather than a "dominance" thing.

If you watch Cesar working with food-guarding dogs, he works hard not to push them into biting, by doing something like just taking the food away.

Once he's ok with that, then try trading the toy (as Mikey described) for a really, really juicy treat, something he can't resist. You just want to get him to drop the toy and go for the treat, and then take the toy, don't act too much like you're trying to get it away from him, he'll be more suspicious of that. If he's having real trouble getting away from the toy (he might want to leave the toy just long enough to get the treat and then go back to the toy) give him multiple juicy treats till he's really distracted, encouraging him away from the area, and then take toy.

**fawkese1** · 11-04-2009, 02:33 PM

ALWAYS trade the dog for whatever he has... practicing trading games all the time is a good way to get him to know that you aren't "taking things away" from him...
practice by trading one toy for the other, use treats to trade for toys....dogs and possession has to do with space...if an item is within a certain distance from the dog, it is "his" anything further, the item is neutral....that amount of space varies per dog per situation....
hand feeding is a really really really good idea...
http://dogs.about.com/cs/behavioriss...urce_guard.htm

http://www.petfriendlyhouse.com/info..._Guarding.aspx

this is a great quote from the second site:

Quote:

Many people are of the unfounded belief that taking the bowl (or other high value object) away and giving it back is a way to teach the dog to accept this. Actually this teaches the dog to mistrust people coming near the bowl. The action that occurs immediately following the approach of the person is the taking of the desired object. Even if the object is subsequently returned, it is the taking away that becomes associated with the approach of a person. Using this approach could increase bite risk for children and visitors to the home since the dog will assume that any person intends to take his treasures and he may be less tolerant.

howetechnical · 11-04-2009, 07:29 PM

Thanks for all the replies. He's really a fantastic dog, even with this growling issue. The thing is, he doesn't go after food that falls to the ground. My wife and I were pretty surprised to see him stay still when we dropped some crumbs to the ground. He's very well mannered inside the house, and -only- growls while eating from his bowl (which is for about 10 seconds, he sucks that food down). We can hand feed him all we want with treats or whatever and he doesn't growl, but petting him at the same time would be a good exercise. He also only growls when he has his toy(s) for more than about 5-10 seconds, once he's invested some time into getting comfortable with it. If he's playing, no problem and no growls (we played around and wrestled a bit when I came home from work today). Only when he's laying down to chew on it does he growl. I'll try the trading game with him to see how that goes.

We also found out today that he may be more lab than we thought. His face is more like a lab, and after only two days of runs/walks twice a day for 2.5-3 miles each, he was really dragging during this mornings jog. We're going to slow it down a bit and see how his endurance and muscles develop to handle more frequent and quicker workouts. I would expect that a true english pointer wouldn't have this issue, unless he was considerably under exercised prior.

**fawkese1** · 11-04-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

The thing is, he doesn't go after food that falls to the ground. My wife and I were pretty surprised to see him stay still when we dropped some crumbs to the ground. He's very well mannered inside the house, and -only- growls while eating from his bowl

that is the space thing i was talking about...dropping it near you, it is sort of "yours" and when it is near him it is "his" and this varies too....don't go too fast with him.....feeding him a treat by hand is not the same as holding his food dish in your hands and hand feeding him...that will make a really big difference for you....and always always trade...

there is a good chance he was underexercised...lots of dogs are...and all the changes in his life will be exhausting him mentally so he may just not have it in him to really work out right now....but labs are high energy dogs too tho so i wouldn't imagine lab blood slowing down a pointer by much

**Criosphynx** · 11-04-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

and -only- growls while eating from his bowl (which is for about 10 seconds, he sucks that food down).

first off welcome

second...pick up this book asap.

Amazon.com: Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs (9780970562944): Jean Donaldson: Books

there is a whole hierarchy to fix this. You have to do it right or he will relapse...Its too detailed to go into online

trading games are AWESOME for dogs that aren't guarding yet. Or for items hes not guarding yet. If hes already guarding you need to follow the counterconditioning hierarchy thats in the book.

Mikey · 11-04-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

there is a good chance he was underexercised...lots of dogs are

Totally agree with this. Mikey was a couch potatoe when we got him, and pretty thin as well. Now he's conditioned, he's the fastest dog (so far) at the dog park-and ridiculously high energy

He's really shaped up -and quickly

howetechnical · 11-05-2009, 01:24 AM

Thanks again for the responses; I'll pick up that book from amazon.

The growling has developed into something more serious now, however. It seems as though he growls the same, or less, with me (he and I have bonded real well), however with my wife it's a different story. Ever since the dog and I have become closer (only today, really, since we've had him 3 days now), he now growls at her 90% of the time that she pets him on the head, back, or gets near him to show him attention. It's a slight growl, and no teeth are showing, but it's a growl nonetheless (his ears are also slightly back while doing this). Even when giving him a treat, then going to pet him, he growls at her, and especially does so when she tries to pet his chest or anything under his headline. With me, I can pet his neck, chest, legs, anywhere and he'll act like he loves it and even put his paw up on my arm.

This behavior needs to stop right away if we are to keep him (it's a 1 week trial), as I can't have my wife in danger or afraid that he will attack.

The weird thing is, if we're both riding bikes and I'm leading him, he'll actually run faster to catch up with her if she goes ahead of us and is always looking behind to see where she is if she's behind.